The nearest dealer to Copemhagen and...

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John Callaway

Post by John Callaway » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:16 am

Where is the nearest dealer (relative to Copenhagen, Denmark) where I could listen to the Blue Circle CS and NSCS integrated amps? Any dealers in Berlin? I'm driving down there, soon.

Does anyone have experience using either integrated amp. with Audio Vector speakers (Mi3), which are a local product in the region and I gather pretty unkown outside it.

Thanks for the help.

John Callaway

Nick
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Post by Nick » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:42 pm

I don't know who the nearest dealer to you is, but I can rave about the sonics of the CS.

**Warning** I am a crazy music lover who happens to think the CS is one of the best values out there.

At its price point I am yet to find and equal or even a close competitor. On this side of the stratosphere I don't know of anything better. The Bryston B60, Sim I3, etc.. can all move over, as they are not nearly as musical as the CS. In comparison the other amps sound a little lifeless.

I took a quick look at your speakers. Technically it should work great, but I don't know how they sound. If you let me know a little more about how they sound, and what type of music you like (as well as your source) I could offer you some more help.

If you have read the reviews then you will have an idea about how this amp sounds. I do agree with what they say. The CS is a very open and inviting amp with a touch of warmth (but not to much).

Hope this helps.
Happy listening,
Nick :)

John Callaway

Post by John Callaway » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:51 am

Nick wrote:
If you let me know a little more about how they sound, and what type of music you like (as well as your source) I could offer you some more help.


Hope this helps.
Happy listening,
Nick :)
Hi Nick,

Thank you for your helpful reply and effort. I am not a knowlegdable audio person, but I love to listen to music and ever since i got my new speakers, it's like a new world, even though they are not very well-known or expensive.

How do my speakers sound (with my current integrated amp): They have a good warm mid-range. The trebble is pretty precise and clear, but not ear piercing. The base is distinct, but not booming, a little under-emphasised I would say. (I also auditioned some 4-ohm System Audio speakers. They can keep up with anything, but sound like someone screaming obscenities in your ear as clear as bell, if you get my point).

What sounds good: Vocal music - blues, "folk", all of my Canadian favorites - Ian and Sylvia, Neil Young, Dire Straits, Buffi St. Marie. So do guitar instrumentals in the bluegrass, blues, gentle-moderate rock, and "folk".

Where they strain: On the fast extremes in both the base and trebble and the transitions in Stravinski, Rochmaninov, Bartok, etc., but i think this tough on the very best speakers. I listened to some classical speakers that cost 3X as much and they also faltered a bit. (The salesperson wanted me to listen Grieg!)

What I like: all of the above, but less emphasis on the classical side. Also, i have a small grunge collection of badly burned CDs, i love, just for the energy. The important question is what does my wife like: blues and alternative rock (Bright Eyes, the Shins, Rilo Kiley, etc., lyrical and wide-ranging). I am a little afraid to say i like Merle Haggard and the two newest Ian Tyson recordings. Al of these also sound good.

My source: an 8 yr-old piece of Marantz signature equipment for a CD player (I am also ready to replace this along with the Marantz pm-66 something-or-other integrated amp. I bought with it 8 years ago, but I will do that after i replace the integrated amp and then i will also replace the speaker cables and connectors). I am 62. I will be buried with what i buy, more than likely.

A little background about our audio choices in DK: We have a limited selection of "affordable" equipment in Denmark. VAT is 15%. Import Tax is another 15%. I think the companies like Rotel and Arcam have to cut their profit margins, here, as only they can afford to do. Our "affordable" integrated amp choices are: NAD, Cambridge, low-end Rotel, Arcam, and maybe Thorens (plus Marantz, Denon, etc- - the giants). Then you move up to Primare, the higher end of Arcam and Rotel, Musical Fidelity, Thorens and Holfi...and then there is the really high end, which only a few can afford. A lot of speakers are made in the region, which are better than average for the price.

I have a feeling that the CS is right up my alley, but how to listen to one and then get it into DK without adding $1,000 to the price are the main issues.

Canada - Ontario is a very civilised country-province. I spent much time there as a boy in the summer. But I think this fellow Gilbert should move his company to Scandinavia, where his slightly outrageous streak (door stop and other photos i saw), audio-genius, his obvious commitment to quality and practical approach to building his audio equipment would fit in best with the danish temprement and danish audio-engineering tradition.

Thanks again.

Regards,

John Callaway

Nick
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Post by Nick » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:02 pm

I think the CS will fit the bill assuming they play nice with your speakers.

I first used it with some Paradigm Reference Studio 40's v2.
With that combo I found it a little bright. I was not the fault of the CS, the Paradigms had a tendency to sound bright. The CS is not rolled off the high end, nor do I find it bright. I find it extended without being on either side of the line. However with the Paradigms it was too much. I only mention this because I don't know how your speakers sound. If you speakers can sound bright you may want something a little more rolled of in the high end. This is not a negative trait of the amp, if it were to be bright it would probably be the speakers fault. But then again you might be able to cure this with a speaker cable with a rolled off top end.

I should also note, the bass on the CS is not deep or powerful as some other amps. This I would say (in my experience) would be the amp only short coming. You can defiantly follow the bass lines on everything, it just does not have the lowest of lows. However I should note that it does has bass, just probably not enough for a bass nut. The bass it does have is very tight and taught and should be more than enough for your average listener. I have not heard the NSCS, but I imagine the bass would not be an issue there. Maybe sometime in the future I will be able to compare the CS to it.

And lastly, the midrange, This is were the amp shines. It's midrange is not like anything I have heard at this price point. I could go on raving about it, but I won't, as you have probably read all the online reviews. It is very open and inviting, with good soundstage and imaging and presence and tone. The midrange is were this amp excels.

I believe the midrange is very important and will make or break an amp (assuming the highs and lows don't are not awful). What good is the deepest bass if the midrange sounds flat and dull? This is what I find with the other solid state amps in its price range. The other amps go deeper, but they sound dull and boring by comparison. I also find with other amps fatigue sets in after a few hours. With the CS I listen for half a day with no problems.

Take a look at the Quad 57. It is a world renowned speaker, and probably one of the top 5 speakers of all time. It's not popular because it goes deep, or it goes loud. It' popular because its fun to listen to, and it's midrange is one of the best. I find the CS to be like the Quad 57, The CS is not popular because it can be used to DJ at a club, it is popular because at home its fun to listen to, and for the price it can't be touched, just like the Quad.

So I can't tell you if the CS is right for you. You know what your system sounds like, and you know what you like and what you don't. I am assuming you have read the reviews out there (there are links on this site.) I have just tried to fill in some gaps and offer up my experience.

Seeing as your in europe and will have to pay a lot of extra tax to get it, you may or may not be able to find something better for the price. I don't know how much things are over there. With the amps you mentioned I would not hesitate to take the CS. I used to own a Cambridge A500 a few years ago when I first got into hifi. There is no question, the Cambridge and Blue Circle are not even in the same league. Heck, they are not even playing the same sport.

Anyways, I have rambled enough, and I hope helped to clarify things rather than confuse you.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Nick :)

P.S. Sorry it took so ling for me to get back to you. I have been working like mad lately. Yesterday I worked 20 hours!

Chowder_head
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Post by Chowder_head » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:27 am

Thanks Nick,

Take your time. 20 hours! One reason i left the US was that I wanted a more civilised working environment.

I am much much less knowledgeable than you about sound technology.

Can you tell me what what "bright" means? Also "rolled off at the end"?

I have auditioned a number of integrated amps up to around $2000 USD with my speakers, too many - made by NAD, Rotel, ARCAM, Exposure, Primare, Thorens, Holfi, Marantz, Prima Luna (but not with my speakers). Too many models to name. Of this group, the Prima Luna stood way out, but i didn't want a tube amp. and there were speaker issues. I can say i also will not buy any of the Rotel, Arcam, Exposure or Thorens products i heard.

So, the beat goes on...

Regards,

John

Nick
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Post by Nick » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:07 pm

Hello John,

A bright amp would be one were its frequency response would sound tilted to the top end. It would sound like the high frequencies are taking over. The resulting sound is usually very detailed, but it become fatiguing to listen to and eventually will drive you out of the room.

A rolled off amp, is the exact opposite in the top end. Instead of having to much top end, it does not have enough. This can result in a sound that lacks sparkle and sounds a little dull and hollow. It will also sound like it's lacking air - meaning the space around the musician seems really closed in. I find with having no high end it takes it toll on the midrange everything lacks luster.

Sorry for some of the weird audiophile jargon and mumbo jumbo. Its hard to describe just how something sounds without trying to invent words. :)

It ends up being a balancing act. Some speaker companies will give a speaker a little extra top end to help make it sound "better" (possibly to make up for dull sounding amps and recievers). The problem is, in the store over 1/2 hour demo, it will sound like its the best speaker. However once you get that speaker home and the 'new car' effect starts to wear off, you might find it starts to bother you, and eventually it could force to you replace it.

So getting back to the CS. I find it to have an extended top end without being on either side of the line. With my last speakers the Paradigm Reference Studio 40's I found it to much. The paradigms tweeter had a little to much top end, so once it was matched with the CS it was fatiguing to sit down and listen too. With my current speakers (Magnepan MG12's) it sound good.

It will also depend on your source equipment and how it sounds (sorry to through another variable in).

I have a Rega Planet 2000 which has a slightly rolled off top end, in a attempt to make it sound more like a turntable. With this CD player you might be fine with a speaker that has to much top end.
But I also just bought a Wadia DAC, this dac has a very extended top end with out being bright.

However now that I have a source with an extended top end as well as an amp with an extended top end, my system is less forgiving of a bright speaker. (When I say extended - I just mean all of the highs are there without being bright or rolled off).

So as you can see, its really a balancing act to try and get everything to work together and not work against each other. Some people refer to this as synergy (where 2+2+2=7). Essentially when everything works together it gives you a result greater than what it should.

So I am reluctant to say the CS is going to be the perfect amp for you. I find it to be great amp and in it's price range I have not found anything better. Wether or not if will fit in right with your system I do not know. Your speakers, cables, sources and room with all play a part, as well as your musical preference and personal tastes.

I really do hope I have helped to clarify things. It's not my intent to confuse you. I am just trying to be as honest as possible. In end it comes down to how everything works together and personal preference.

No matter what route you choose, don't forget it's all about the music. It is easy to get caught up in the gear and loose sight of things. No matter what amp you buy, make sure you are happy with it, because in the end you are the one that has to listen to it.

Cheers and happy listening,
Nick :)

One another note: The only reason I was working that much was because I HAD to finish a project for the weekend. I ended up sleeping until 1pm today (saturday). When I sat down to listen to music this afternoon I ended up dozing off about 2 songs in. Its a good thing I am young and I can still get away with doing this to myself.


Chowder_head
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Post by Chowder_head » Sun May 01, 2005 3:43 am

Hi Nick,

You have helped me a lot. Thank you.

One of the problems with living in a foreign country is that i continually have to learn new words and the correct terms for complicated concepts that don't translate directly from english to danish. This is made more difficult when i don't even understand the concepts in my native langage.

I would be taking a big risk to buy an amp i didn't hear with my speakers. The cables and source are all doable once i get it, but the speakers are another issue. They are warm and the base is pretty good. I had my marantz pm 66SE signature fixed and they sound even better. I will do more homework on them. They are so much better than my old B&W 250s...nice to look at; that's about it.

Thanks again. The ball is in my court. I'll talk with the Blue Circle crew after they get back from New York. Oh, yesterday I auditioned a French-Tiwanese amp. , Audio Refinement Complete, with my speakers. It sounded just great to my ears. They tried a bait and switch for the $4,000 Vive la France superb magifique model (YBA) - all French - now there's a honey.

Hope your weather is better than ours.

Regards,

John


Nick
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Post by Nick » Thu May 12, 2005 1:42 pm

Hi John,

Just wondering how your search is coming along.
Are you still thinking about going for the CS?

Cheers,
Nick

Chowder_head
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Post by Chowder_head » Wed May 25, 2005 7:01 am

Hi Nick,

I ordered the CS. Thanks for all your help. I talked with a number of other owners and dealers. Their comments mirrored yours, or else were euphoric.

John

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